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Dancing Alexander-style, Down Under

15 March 2010 | By Sinisa-Jakov Marusic

Sinisa-Jakov Marusic The issue of national identity is taken seriously by Balkan people – including the least serious among them.


Serbs Mark Sixth Anniversary of Riots in Kosovo
17 March 2010 | Bojana Barlovac

Six years after ethnic Albanians attacked Serb enclaves in Kosovo in what became the worst single attack against Kosovo Serbs since the 1999 war, reconstruction of damaged property is ongoing but Serbian officials believe that conditions for the return of the Serb population have not yet been established.

Enlargement Commissioner Encourages Serbia EU Integration
17 March 2010 | Bojana Barlovac

European Enlargement Commissioner Stefan Fuele has conveyed to Serbian officials the support of the European Commission for the country's EU integration process.

Indictment for Konjic Crimes Confirmed
18 March 2010 |

The Court of Bosnia and Herzegovina has confirmed an indictment against Sead Hakalovic, who is charged with war crimes against civilians committed in Konjic municipality.



Ghosts of the Past Endanger Macedonia’s Future

Skopje, Tetovo, Thessaloniki and Sofia | 27 October 2009 | By Boris Georgievski
 

The drive to forge a new identity, as heir to the world of Classical Antiquity, creates identity crisis at home and worsens tensions with neighbours.

Read the article in Macedonian

In the peak-time slot every Saturday evening on TV in Skopje, Atanas Pcelarski explains the meaning of words from the world of Classical Antiquity in modern Macedonian. “Macedonia is the source of the world. Languages, themes about God, religion, the legal system, they all stem from Macedonia,” he declares. The Macedonia of Classical Antiquity and the modern republic are one and the same.

Pcelarski is one of many who insist on a direct link between the world of Alexander the Great and the Macedonia of today. A growing obsession with the warrior is only part of a controversial debate about modern Macedonia’s ancient roots – and contemporary identity.

Since the nationalist VMRO-DMPNE party won the 2006 elections, Alexander’s name and image have become more visible. What began with the rebranding of the country’s main airport, has snowballed into a wider phenomenon.

The renaming of the airport as “Skopje Alexander the Great Airport” infuriated Greece, which insists that Alexander was a Hellene, and that both Macedonia’s name and the region’s Classical history are the exclusive cultural property of Greece.

The two neighbours have been locked in a dispute over Macedonia’s name ever since the former Yugoslav republic declared independence in 1991.

Although Macedonia rebuffed diplomatic suggestions to reverse the renaming of the airport, it refrained from further provocations until last year.

But since Greece blocked the issuing of an invitation for Macedonia to join NATO in Bucharest in April 2008, the VMRO-DPMNE-led government of Nikola Gruevski has launched a series of projects celebrating Alexander and other Classical heroes.

This process is not without critics in Macedonia. They say the attempt to construct a new identity for Macedonia on the basis of a presumed link to the world of Antiquity, known locally as ‘Antikvizacija’ (Antiquisation), is having devastating consequences.

One complaint is that the campaign is placing new strains on a fragile multi-ethnic society in which the dissatisfaction of the large ethnic Albanian minority is already growing.

Another fear is that the emphasis on Classical Antiquity is dividing ethnic Macedonians into two groups, separating those who back ‘Antiquisation’ from others who think of themselves as Slavs.

 Divided Territory
For five centuries, Macedonia was part of the Ottoman Empire. After 1913, the territory was divided between three Balkan countries. Greece received around 34,200 km2 (around 52 per cent of the territory). Serbia obtained today’s Republic of Macedonia, comprising 25,333 km2. Bulgaria received the smallest portion, 6,449 km2.







For generations, especially while Macedonia was part of Yugoslavia, Macedonians held onto a Slavic
identity that was separate, but related to that of the Slavs of neighbouring Serbia and Bulgaria.

A final concern is that the populist campaign is alienating key foreign allies as well as Macedonia’s neighbours. Experts note that both Bulgaria and Greece could exercise their power as EU members to delay or veto Macedonia’s accession to the Union.  


Changing face of the public space

When Anastas Vangeli returned to Macedonia in mid-2009 after spending a year in Budapest studying nationalism, he was astonished by the change in the atmosphere.

“Society has turned in on itself,” he says. “It’s as if Macedonians are looking at the magic mirror in the children’s fable and asking: mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the most Antique of us all?”

It is the not just the media that pushes the theme of Macedonia’s Classical identity. Monuments to Classical heroes are springing up in town after town.

The capital, Skopje, is to erect a 22-metre-tall monument to Alexander next year. His statue already crowns the centre of Prilep.

Against ‘Antiquisation,’ but for GovernmentA poll conducted by the International Republican Institute in June 2009, showed 59 per cent of Macedonians wanted Gruevski to focus on the economy, not Antiquity. But other polls show that Gruevski’s party, the VMRO-DPMNE, enjoys ratings three times higher than the main opposition Social Democrats.



Who came first?


At home, the issue of who “first” settled the Balkans has worsened the divide between Macedonians and the ethnic-Albanian minority, which comprises about one-quarter of the population.

Sam Vaknin, a former advisor to Prime Minister Gruevski, has described “Antiquisation” as a nation-building project that was essentially anti-Albanian, rather than anti-Greek or anti-Bulgarian.

“Antiquisation has a double goal, which is to marginalise the Albanians and create an identity that will not allow Albanians to become Macedonians,” he said in an interview in June.

Abdurahman Aliti, leader of the ethnic Albanian Party for Democratic Prosperity, PDP, agrees that the campaign is directed against them. “Antiquisation sends a message to Albanians that they are newcomers in this country and have nothing to do here,” he says.

For their part, most Albanians insist they “came first”. They believe modern Albanians descend from the Illyrian tribes that Ancient Roman historians wrote about in their books. Some claim Alexander was of Illyrian origin.

Albanians were outraged when the Macedonian Academy of Science in September published an encyclopaedia that referred to Albanians as “settlers” and “shiptari” – a term Albanians view as offensive. Albanians in both Macedonia and Kosovo staged protests against what they considered as slurs.

In Albania, the historian and politician Sabri Godo said that the encyclopaedia aimed “to destroy peaceful coexistence between Albanians and Macedonians.”

Long Lost Relatives
 In July 2008, Prince Ghazanfar Ali Khan and Princess Rani Atiqa of the Hunza people, from Pakistan’s Himalaya region, self-proclaimed descendants of Alexander the Great, visited Skopje and met top officials, including Prime Minister Gruevski and the Macedonian Orthodox Archbishop, who blessed them. The Muslim Hunzas had not heard of Macedonia until 12 years ago, when a Macedonian linguistics professor claimed the Hunza and Indo-European languages shared a common grammar. Athens also has close relations with Pakistan, this time with the Kalashi tribe, also from the Himalaya region. Greek emigrants in the US have asked the US to give special protection to the ‘Hellenic descendants of the armies of Alexander the Great’ in the Himalayas.










Read the article in Macedonian

This article was produced as part of the Balkan Fellowship for Journalistic Excellence, an initiative of the Robert Bosch Stiftung and ERSTE Foundation, in cooperation with the Balkan Investigative Reporting Network, BIRN.



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Comments:
Great article
2009-10-27 14:25:23
Great article Boris. Shows all sides very fairly and highlights accutely how nationalism is something ingrainded in the balkans. This clinging to archaic 19th c values in all balkan countries needs to end ASAP. For such a beautiful and cultrally rich region, they really are a messed up bunch. Mind you I say this as someone with proud balkan heritage. Thank you Balkan Insight for these recent great, in depth reports. Keep it up

Good article, minus the pseudonaming conventions.
2009-10-27 14:55:24
This would have been a great unbiased article if you had not named FYROM as Macedonia. You provide both sides with their argument, unbiased. However, by naming FYROMians as Macedonians, your true intent shows. In turn, this article is poorly written, albeit at the core the intention was good. Macedonia, the identity, the people, the history, the culture is only Greek. Macedonia the geography, is shared between Greece, Bulgaria and FYROM.

cut the bs
2009-10-27 15:43:36
Thanks Balkan Insight for the completely unbiased article.....in case you can't tell i am being sarcastic. Why do you present Macedonia as being the guilty party in this situation. Macedonia is defending its right to exist and the right of self determination which should be the right of all people. When you are being attacked by all the countries surrounding you and who all want your country to be destroyed you must defend yourself and not lay down and die like a dog. Macedonia is fighting for its rights. Every surrounding country wants to see the country torn apart so they can take their own peice. Greece's allegations are a classic tactic to deflect the true issues by focusing on the name, instead of wanting peace and a stable Balkan they want to destabilize, so we do not focus on the real issues and real crimes of Greece. Bulgaria is just as bad but their intention appears to be purely territory based. They want a piece of Macedonia and will encourage any destabilization to achieve this. Albania and Kosovo's intentions are to join with a western Macedonia and create an Albanian superstate, but this still will not make them happy, even if this was granted to them tomorow, they will always want more and have nothing constructive to offer in the country. The forged census of 2002 shows more than 25% ablanian population in MKD but in reality this is closer to 17%. The corruption and unwillingness for the Macedonians to be united in this issue is the only real threat we face. If we are united on the name issue and the other issues then we will be fine. We hope for peace and the right to exist and not be constantly attacked by our neighbouring countries. If God is with us then who can stand against us.

What a biased article.
2009-10-27 17:44:05
Somebody is obviously bothered by Macedonians' roots which strech all the way in antiquity. The historical sources are clear: the Macedonians were distinct people. So are the genetic studies which conclusively prove that today's Macedonians are descendants of the ancient Macedonians. The fact that newly created nations -- Greeks, Bulgarians and others have occupied Macedonian territory and have concocted their national myths to include Macedona's glory, is not our problem. It is their problem which they try to transfer onto Macedonia.

Renaming???
2009-10-27 17:55:33
Did not Greece start the renaming of Airports in 1990 it was called Mikra and then Macedonia.hmmm.. Lets not stop there. The coins of 100drahmes where developed with Alex the great. hmmm Well let´s go a little more back in time.. All the macedonians villages where forces 2 change names. like Voden=edessa kokush=kilkis.. hmmm throwing back shit is not the answer 2 solving a issue. But 2 force assimiliation on people who are Macedonians, and create Greeks from Armenians and christioan turks 1919-1924 is ok in Europes eyes? Atleast we have minorites in Republic of Macedonia that shows History through ages! But Greece has Nothing! The still think that Feta cheese is theirs and only theirs. White cheese is made everywhere in the balkans. The Name that bcome most popular through tourists was through Greece. But soes that make them the founder of White cheese? If u hear a gr8 song all the Balkans countries will claim it tomorrow as theirs. It is the same with History.. he who screams the loudest will win.. EU knows this but still keep Balkans as a hostage of peoples analphabetism. And they should!

There has to be a better way, Macedonia
2009-10-27 18:20:09
“Macedonia can only defend its name, if it proves that the Macedonian nation has Classical Antique and not Slavic roots,” Kuzman said on a local TV show in June. --- That is a tragic and highly objectionable misconception. There's no reason why a modern nation should feel obliged to participate in a childish competition based on the attitudes so aptly lampooned in "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" ("You know, the root of the word Miller is a Greek word. Miller come from the Greek word 'milo,' which is mean 'apple',..."). If the Greek nation needs invoke the ancient Hellenes at every point (and negate the existence of national minorities within its border, for that matter), that's its own problem. There's no reason at all, I repeat, why Macedonians should let themselves be drawn into that kind of argument that will only end up leaving both sides looking ridiculous.

Biased
2009-10-27 18:32:36
The article is biased against Macedonians. You degrade the Macedonian position, but simply state the greek position. Quit going along with this greek BS, it's all made up. Macedonians know who they are, you can't take that away from them.

To Alexander above
2009-10-27 18:38:11
For you, the above Aleksandros,even your name is an etymological Greek one, and contrary to your statement the truth is that historical sources are clear that Macedonians, from the begining to our times, were nothing else then Greeks living in a Greek Macedonia. Let genetic studies be the proofs for nazis, not for you. Those who speak "Makedonski", they are slavs by their culture,and the Greeks who speak Greek in Macedonia, are macedonians by their culture, as much as Greek. Do you get it Aleksandros?

This article is correct...
2009-10-27 18:59:51
The drive to forge a new identity...how true! They must be the only people on the planet who hate themselves. Why do these particular Slavs hate who they are? Nothing is wrong with being a Serb or Bulgar. From what I read their relatives are the Polish people. They are proud of who they are. Why can't you? I have read history...there is no doubt about it. It is a fact that Alexander the Great was Greek.He spoke Doric Greek.Not a slavic language. There is proof out there already you can't change history. I'm Italian American and what is done to the greeks is unfair. They are mostly related to us Italians and yes they did exist! This is just disgusting!

Lunatic asylum anyone?
2009-10-27 19:40:57
History academics from all over the world (that is everywhere outside FYROM) empatically say that ancient Macedonians were Greeks. You try to prove your connection to ancient Macedonians aka Greeks. Next thing is to start learning the language of ancient Macedonians (which is Greek) and then what? claim you are the true Greeks? Maybe you would like us to give you the key to our homes? p.s. the funniest thing I have heard in the last decade was your discovery that the Roseta stone is written in slav-macedonian. A lot of people are still laughing. kostas

Macedonian
2009-10-27 20:15:03
Great article. Its a pity that one like a Greek who has renamed himself a Macedonian is not even a Macedonian. If Alexander was a Greek then why did he slaughter all the Greeks? Your own Greek historians are rolling around in their graves right now if they knew you claim Alexander to be a Greek. If there are no Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia (the part that Greece stole in 1913) why did the Greek government burn all signs or anything related to Macedonians and why do you ban the language in Greece today?

GREAT
2009-10-27 20:15:06
GREAT

antiquization
2009-10-27 20:38:31
Whatever they say, all the champions of antiquization and macedonianism from FYROM and diaspora have become the joke of international academia. Why Euripides was granted Macedonian citizenship in 5th century BC and wrote at least 2 plays in Macedonia? At what language were those plays performed in ancient macedonian theaters? It is time for all those neophytes to start learning Greek in order to complete the process of antiquization. You can't take but the whole package. Cheers all from Florina,Real Macedonia,Greece

To "Myself" Above
2009-10-27 20:44:47
You should take the time to discuss your country's fascist politics and old wives tales and turn to science. Specifically, you might consider what the Igenea Institute has to say about the matter. They say that 30% of the DNA Macedonians carry is consistent with that of ancient Macedonians. I know a lot of people laugh at that, or may not consider the mention of genetics proper, but I think it does explain why people are so stubborn to retain their identity and aren't very compliant when it comes to selling it to the highest bidder.


2009-10-27 21:55:02
Pando your a real idiot....and carmen im not sure what history books you have read but please keep reading.

Macedonian view not shown
2009-10-27 22:04:22
The article is okay, but it doesnt show the true situation of the Balkans. Greece has created the name issue to put focus away from its human rights abuses. Greece has forced Macedonians to pledge they won't speak Macedonian, forced oil down throats of those that did, and jailed or murdered Macedonians wanted to retain their culture. The cultural genocide continues in Greece, in the 1980s Greece created a law which states only Greeks can return to Greece if they were kicked out in the 1940s. Greece wants attention off its human rights record and thus, this is their solution. Bulgaria wants to create a Great Bulgaria in which regions gained from the 1878 San Stefano treaty, at any cost. Bulgaria has been assimilating Macedonian culture into their own, afterwords stating it is theres. The same human rights abuses are occuring in Bulgaria, in which no Macedonian organization is register... not being allowed too even after EU/UN rulings against Bulgaria. Albanians have been trying to create a great Albania since 1944, in which facist ideologies still are present. The article states Albanians are mistreated even though they have statues of UCK, Mother Theresa and Skanderbeg in Macedonian cities, they have language and cultures in schools and are represented in the military and government. The problem is not Macedonians trying to push out Albanians, its ALBANIANS NOT WANTING TO INTEGRATE. It happens in all countries Albanians are found, Greece, Montenegro, Kosovo etc. As for the Pando comment, Florina was called Lerin before 1913, in which forceful Hellenization of Macedonia began. I have the photos to prove it, all you have is nationalist statements. The real Macedonia is geographic, not a single portion.

Bravo
2009-10-27 22:24:32
well done for the author of this article!!nothing else its just speaks the truth.It hurts them but this is the reallity and all the balkans know it.I hope many Fyromians will read it and wake up even a little(which i dont see it happening)!!Greeting from the reall Macedonia in Hellas!!

monopolization of the name
2009-10-27 22:52:40
Greece cannot allow any non-Greek people around monopolizing the name of Macedonia because Germans (Turks) cannot allow any non German (non Turkish) people around monopolizing the name of Bavaria (Ottoman). the solution is simple, though: Somemacedonia. Some could be any Slavic word: pravo, velik, slavo, gorno, sever, .... When a nation is threatened it resorts to truth. SlavoSkopians deny opening their eyes and see the truth. The problem of the name will be solved for well when SlavoSkopians tell the whole truth about Macedonians and SlavoSkopians to their children. And finally, tell that professor that blood and dna are not related to ethnicity, at least within a race.

Istor/Makedon_Hellas reply
2009-10-27 23:09:24
It is interesting that both these "Greeks" do not view the US Department of State, Greek Helsinki, EU Monitor, etc which states Macedonians are discriminated against in Greece both socially and politically. Macedonians were divided in 1913, after which forceful Hellenization by changing town/village names (Lerin to Florina), changing peoples names (Petov to Petous), forcing a change in language and religion had occurred. Macedonians are discriminated against in Greek law, like the 1980s law which state refugees of the Greek Civil War must be Greek to come back. 28,000 Macedonian children cannot see their parents bcuz they will NOT bow down to discrimination and say they are Greek. Greece has played this game before: 1) Epirus: They call their region "Epirus" and Albania's region "North Epirus", claiming it should be a part of Greece. 2) Cyprus: They state "North Cyprus" should be controlled by "Cyprus" Greece wants to force Macedonia to change its name to "North Macedonia" so it can later lay claim to it, stating it is part of its Macedonia in Greece. (Infact, this is already the situation with right winged Greeks) Macedonia must rename Macedonia, Macedonians will rename Macedonians

Republic Of Macedonia
2009-10-27 23:29:36
Boris Georgievski, I think I will call you Mr Georgiopolus. Cause you write like an Athenian! Greek documents dating from the 1920s certify the existing of the Macedonian language and its recognition by the then Greek state. Therefore Athens printed the "Abecedar", the Macedonian primer in 1925 to protect the rights of the ethnic Macedonians in Greece. Yet in 2008, Greece tells you there are no Macedonians or a Macedonian language. Where have these people disappeared to that the primer was published for?

ethics
2009-10-27 23:58:58
ethics

Great piece
2009-10-28 03:15:37
The article was great (as have been the others in this series). It reveals the lunacy of nationalism and how easily people can be led to believe the garbage that populist politicians feed them. Even though the author clearly thinks what’s going on in Macedonia is something to be regretted, he’s still given the other side a fair hearing. For me, however, the article raises the bigger question of why so much scrutiny is placed on the nationalist myth-making occuring in Macedonia, while very little is made of the matter in neighbouring nation-states, where it occurs with even greater rabidity. Greece has been claiming that its citizens descend from an ancient civilisation for decades and no one seems to be putting this under the microscope to reveal how ludicrous it is. Why must Macedonians constantly justify doing what is accepted as a matter of course in neighbouring states? This is the very essence of the problem – the presence of a one way criticism and a one way expectation that Macedonians define themselves in a manner deemed appropriate by more powerful neighbours who have it by the balls.

Ghosts of the Past Endanger Macedonia’s Future
2009-10-28 03:32:18
Shane, Get your facts straight about the Abecedar. Don't spread lies. Don't substitute 'Macedonians' for Bulgarians. But then again, you've been doing exactly that with Samuel, Misirkov, Delchev, etc. Why stop there?

Reponses
2009-10-28 04:26:53
Great point Shane, both the Greek government and Bulgarian government have recognized the Macedonians regardless of political connotation. Istor, we cannot change our name because Greece creates territorial aspirations, look at this: 1) Epirus: "Epirus" in Greece while they call Albanian territory "Northern Epirus", claiming it is Greek land 2) Cyprus: "Republic of Cyprus" claiming "North Cyprus" is a part of Cyprus 3) Further Macedonia: "Macedonia" in Greece while calling Macedonian territory "North Macedonia" and claiming it as Greek land Macedonians are well aware of what is going on. Makedon_Hellas, the name of Florina in postcards, documents, and pictures was "LERIN" before 1913, in which Greeks forcefully Hellenized Macedonians and other ethnicities. Do not forgot the 1920s population exchanges, in which over 600000 Christians from Turkey came to Macedonia, taking Macedonian property, land, and today call themselves "Macedonians!" Do not forgot 1946-49, in which Macedonians were kicked out of their home in Greece and still cannot return to this day due to Greek law! And especially dont forgot the black list which do not allow Macedonian activists into the country! Genocide has been committed against the Macedonians, and cultural genocide is being committed today by Greece! This is the reason for the name issue, to distract us! FIND OUT MORE INFO ABOUT MACEDONIAN HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES ONLINE!

Blindness
2009-10-28 05:48:37
Excellent article, i will properly cite it in Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy, Boston. Up to the point and unbiased. In substance: Macedonia needs to look deeper in itself and find the truth: nobody negates the right to self-determination. What it cannot be tolerated is a threat to the borders of another country. Greece is the only true friend of Macedonia in the region. It is unbelievable that Macedonians are blind on that. Look the investment schemes; the history cannot be rewritten.
stylianos.malliaris@gmail.com

'Antic' dreams
2009-10-28 06:17:36
No matter how much our neighbors try to convince themselves, (because they certainly aren't convincing anyone else), that they are somehow 'antic Macedonians' - REALITY just keeps bursting their bubble! EVERY Archaeological, Historical and Linguistic evidence that has ever been uncovered through time PROVES that the Macedonians were, are and will ALWAYS be Greek. Our Slavic neighbors to the North had better wake up soon from this 'antic' dream, as they are becoming the laughing stock of the whole world. the sooner they realize this, the better for their children and future generations.

Anti-Greek prejudice
2009-10-28 09:04:41
Not so long ago FYROM elected officials claimed to the world not to be related to ancient Macedonians. Today they are direct decendents? Did everyone get a case of amnesia? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA3kwC2YTq4

from Bulgaria with love
2009-10-28 09:25:31
I personaly think all the "macedonia" stuff is so hilarious! I do not care and give a F&*K for you my felow maconians/FYROMS/greeks/serbs/albanians etc. It is just amazing me how you continue going on and on with this thing. life is too short, but hey if you want be ancient macedonians be one. and please do not come with your grandparents documents in the Bulgarian embassy to ask for passport.it is pathetic. when you don't want to live with the damn bulgarians and go to holidays in Greece, stay with the Albanian and have fun! Peace

Fyrom Slavs ''macedonians'' looking for cultural identity!
2009-10-28 13:10:44
Great article. Some serious stuff we tend to forget: -The fall of communism , USSR and the Berlin wall... -A war planned and imposed by the US and major western Europe powers in the western Balkans... -cultural relics and transition from post-Ottoman and post-Communist ideology...to a western 'European Union' -Civil war, turned into religion and ethnic war...(Bad Orthodox Serbs against good Catholic Croatians and poor Bosnian Muslims)... -Divide and conquer, in order to rule... -A cultural and ethnic identity gap, used by some to create new nations... -The creation of NATO (American and European) protectorates...(Bosnia, Fyrom 'macedonia', Kosovo, Tetovo etc) Is it a fact that Turkey is the only 'balcan' country to actually support Fyrom? How come?... Some funny stuff: -'Macedonia di frutta' is a fruit salad in Italy...(with many different kind of fruits)... -There are fierce rumors that the newly emerged pseudo-state of Fyrom (created and named by Tito, 'macedonia', as a region of the Jugoslav federation) has descendants from other ancient civilizations as well...(Mayas, Incas etc) -Fyrom 'MACEDOmaniac' government accuses Egypt, China, India, Arab states and others ancient nations of stealing their national identity... - Slav Fyromians have all the rights and freedoms to call themselves 'macedonians', since they won the 'last minute bid' on the famous auction site: www.CountryNamesForSale.com

"kicked out of homes"
2009-10-28 13:48:27
Some people from FYROM claim that in 1946-1949 they were kicked out of their homes... that is true but not for the reasons they claim - for being communist traitors not "ethnic Macedonian". The sad thing is there are communist Greeks living in FYROM since that time claiming to be distinctly "ethnic Macedonian" as some sort of payback against losing their house in Greece. Gruev's grandfather? Risto Stefov (Chris Stefou)? People who take the whole debate a little too personal? Tell us the real reason why you claim the entire Northern part of Greece. And if you want to talk about renaming cities - are you sure those Greek cities are not FYROM names but either Bulgarian or Turkish? How about Skopje - in Greek Skopion meaning lookout, who renamed what now? As for the picture in the article, looks like a fancy dress costume - they look happy too.

Florina....not lerin
2009-10-28 14:17:02
To the Slavs who keep saying that Florina was Lerin befor 1913: The original name was Chlérinon which means green vegetables in Greek and was named as such by during the Byzantine Empire. Later in the empire it was renamed Florina which is the latin for vegetation and has since been the name for this town. Even in the Ottomans in their records referred to it as Florina. So to say that it was Lerin befor 1913 is an obvious lie and you're not fooling any one with your FAKE history. It's FLORINA, it's THESSALONIKI...GET OVER IT! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florina

FUNNY!! How u keep ignoring the facts that are infront of u!!!
2009-10-28 15:06:14
FUNNY!! How u keep ignoring the facts that are infront of u!!!

@ makedon
2009-10-28 15:06:27
All SlavoSkopian heroes ( Delcev, Misirkov, Karev, Gruev, mihailov, Miladinov, Sarafov, ...) clearly stated that they were Bulgarians. Ask me for proofs. The name of the city was Florina since early Byzantine times. Ask me for proofs. If you change the name of your country then Greece would not "aspirate" it any more. We know that it is Dardania and Peonia. Greece never wanted foreign lands. Anyway an EU member cannot aspirate other countries. Slavs attempted (and still attempting) many times to slavicize Macedonia and Macedonians ( 1878, 1885, 1903, 1912-13, 1916, 1941, 1944, ...) and have lost all the times. After each defeat, they massively left Macedonia for the Slavic paradise. Well done.

name monopoly
2009-10-28 17:07:58
no man, no goverment, no one has the right to tell anyone how they are going call themselves, nobody not even god has monopole over the noun/name Makedonija/Macedonia/ Makedonia history is one thing, right call yourself is another, get a life, people...

Truth
2009-10-28 17:36:23
Truth


2009-10-28 18:25:06
I read this excellent article, then I read the comments and I come to the conclusion that the entire Balkan peninsula is one big messed-up mental institution. Nationalism is a mental illness that has cost us so much. To all you chauvinist fools of all ethnic persuasions, do a favour to everyone, seek professional help, go on medication, and let this part of the world become normal once and for all.

Biased
2009-10-28 18:38:22
By reffering to FYROM as Macedonia and by separating Greeks and Macedonians, balkaninsight shows all the time that is biased.

Fiction Vs Reality-Carnaval and aspirations
2009-10-28 19:02:41
Fiction Slavs calling themselves descendents of Macedonians Reality is Macedonia is Greece www.macedonia-evidence.org/obama-letter.html All the rest is waste of time and carnaval


2009-10-28 20:12:03
Seems to me that arguing with FYROMians is just like arguing with a blind man about what colour my jacket is. I'm Albanian from Albania proper and I don't want a millimetre of FYROMs territory. I'm pretty sure that Greeks and Bulgarians feel the same. What we want is a little respect from our neighbour. You'll find it goes a long way.


2009-10-28 20:13:15
Seems to me that arguing with FYROMians is just like arguing with a blind man about what colour my jacket is. I'm Albanian from Albania proper and I don't want a millimetre of FYROMs territory. I'm pretty sure that Greeks and Bulgarians feel the same. What we want is a little respect from our neighbour. You'll find it goes a long way.

Identity theft is a crime
2009-10-29 02:50:43
To: name monopoly Wednesday, October 28, 2009 A nation has the right to call themselves whatever they want/wish. A nation also has the right to protect it's name, identity and history. Question. Can I become you and own all your possessions, as I too have the right to be who ever I want to be? Choose a different name. The name you wish to be called has identified in antiquity as Hellenic with a Hellenic dialect and a Hellenic alphabet. You are a breed of Slavic root. Identify yourself as Slavic and I can guarantee you that Ellas will not intervene.

Propaganda
2009-10-29 03:04:11
All you Slav Macedonians are all the same - spreading propaganda. Did Alexander the Great spread the Greek culture into the lands he conquered - YES Did the modern day slavs settle into the region of Macedonia after 600 AD - YES All of the ancient pottery & coins discovered in Macedonia are in Greek. Why can't you people understand this? Stop spreading lies to the world. You have the Albanian's to worry about.

cyprus
2009-10-29 08:46:41
Reponses Tuesday, October 27, 2009 Great point Shane, both the Greek government and Bulgarian government have recognized the Macedonians regardless of political connotation. Istor, we cannot change our name because Greece creates territorial aspirations, look at this: 1) Epirus: "Epirus" in Greece while they call Albanian territory "Northern Epirus", claiming it is Greek land 2) Cyprus: "Republic of Cyprus" claiming "North Cyprus" is a part of Cyprus 3) Further Macedonia: "Macedonia" in Greece while calling Macedonian territory "North Macedonia" and claiming it as Greek land Macedonians are well aware of what is going on. Makedon_Hellas, the name of Florina in postcards, documents, and pictures was "LERIN" before 1913, in which Greeks forcefully Hellenized Macedonians and other ethnicities. Do not forgot the 1920s population exchanges, in which over 600000 Christians from Turkey came to Macedonia, taking Macedonian property, land, and today call themselves "Macedonians!" i am Greek from Cyprus its the Republic of Cyprus North Cyprus is occupied by turkish invasion

Jason Turner
2009-10-29 20:04:25
Slavs and Slavic - are the people and language/s Khan Asparuh found when he invaded the Byzantine Empire with his Bulgar tribe in 680. Surely you don't mean to imply that our 'Slavic' languages were only 80 years old and in existance in 600 AD? In those languages the term Slavs means - Orthodox Christians. And we know when religion was spread in the Byzantine Empire.

Helmet
2009-10-30 01:38:40
Love those mo-hawk watermelon helmets. How can anyone take you guys seriously with outfits like that - Even during your communist days when you were Yugoslavian/Bulgarian, Tito would have provided better outfits than those.

Pretty Pathetic
2009-10-30 01:49:54
When the slavic 'Macedonians' start invoking genetic studies that supposedly link them to ancient Greece is a true sign of desperation. The so called studies have been ridiculed on many levels and people are starting to catch on to their ways. Where are all the ancient bodies you got DNA from to compare with? The genetic community is still waiting!

truth is not a position, it is the truth
2009-10-30 01:57:18
"taking the side of the Greek" There is no Greek side vs FYROM side. There is WORLD scholars position VS FYROM side. The vast majority of scholars in biblical studies, Archeology and History side with the Greeks. Check out the Macedonian Evidence site. Many top University heads who are NON-GREEK have signed it from countries outside Greece.

under countires
2009-10-30 03:46:46
seeing this is a "Balkan" page and under the heading countires, there is nothing for Greece, says much about this site... love the way people also look at history always through their own rose coloured glasses... ture texts and references of history don't tell to many lies as much as many try and twist history or at least true history, its usually the truth so here we have Macedonia a stand alone state a source of much debate and the grappling of much power... State being the operative word here a state of the Hellenic world of the Hellenic ideal of the Hellenic kingdom... and as with other states it transfers itself through true history ti to what is known and modern day Greece... for those that have ideals or twisted views otherwise... true history simply says that you are wrong, the sooner that this is accepted the sooner a positive resolution....

Article
2009-10-30 05:02:28
Well written article Boris, keep up the good work.

Whatr are you smoking?
2009-10-30 08:14:15
Geez, what a bunch of crap! For the zillionth time: Ancient Macedonians were greek, no doubt about it. Proof: Ask jews what they celebrate oon Channukah and it's their victory over the greeks, NOT the Macedonians(that's Alexander's successors) Why did they fight other greeks? To unite them under their rule. Athenians and Spartans(among many others) had fought a much bloodier war, yet nobody questions their greekness either. Even today we have rivalries between different cities, take Madrid and Barcelona for instance. The difference is that today this rivarly is fought out on sports fields, not by war. IGENEA is a stupid, paid for by your government private company. You still have to explain where they found DNA from ancient Macedonians or modern greeks for that instance and their conclusions so idiotic that its a joke to even discuss it. -Who genocided whom? Look at the VMRO(original) comitadji scum trying to wipe out non-bulgarians before the Balkan wars, while the place was still occupied by the Turks(they lost to the supposedly non-existent real,greek macedonians) as well as the pro-nazi Ivan Mihailov scum during WWII. These guys were not kicked out, they left to avoid facing the music. Big difference. Fake Macedonians in FYROM proudly considered themselves Bulgarian 100 years ago. At least that was the not-so covert VMRO/IMRO/VMORO goals, look at what its own founders were saying. The point is that Fake Macedonia occupies a land that WAS NEVER MAcedonia, so wanting to go by that name is like them asking to name themselves Scotland, Sicily or Bavaria, even then they are a very small minority compared to the real greek Macedonians, both land and populationwise and with no historical connection.

Fun Fact
2009-11-21 17:07:21
Did anyone know that the country refered to as FYROM is referred to as Skopia(Skopje) by the Greeks. This appelation is in reference to the country's capital:Skopje. Ironicaly the root of the cities name is Greek, That being said here is a source. Wikipedia of course is not the best of sources but its was the clearest and most laconic explanation ''The city of Skopia (Greek: Σκόπια) was located at the far north reaches of the Byzantine empire. The name of the city itself reflects its geographic location and role within the empire, as the word Skopia translates to watch-tower/lookout/obervation point.'' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skopje Well im not saying the Greeks are super cool cause they named the city, I just thought it was interesting. If only we could get past this absurd name issue...Which in the end no one will win. Aside fomr the Slavic nature of their ancestors in FYROM, culturaly (thanks to nearly 5 centuries of the Islamic Milet system used by the Ottomans) we're not so different. The common foe of the Balkan nations has been the same since the 29th of May 1453. Islam....

Patra
2009-11-26 21:33:38
Watching that photo reminds me of Patra's carnival. Maybe it's time FYROMians to claim rights on that Greece's territory too.

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