US Urges Creative Macedonia "Name" Solution

A GRREK PROVERB SAYS "A LOT OF TALKING INDICATES EXTREME POVERTY"... THERE IS NOTHING CREATIVE NEEDED. THE UN HAS ALREADY PROPOSED "NORTH MACEDONIA" FOR ALL INTERNATIONAL USES. THE CITIZENSHIP INDICATION ON THE NEW PASSPORTS SHOULD ALSO BE "NORTH MACEDONIAN". AS FOR THE REST THEY CAN REMAIN AS MUCH "MAKEDONTSI" IN "MAKEDONIYA" EATING, DRINKING, TALKING AND DANCING IN "MAKEDONSKI" STYLE FOR AS LONG AS THEY LAST...

"Athens blocked Skopje’s otherwise certain NATO accession bid"..?? Yes, Greece gave there veto...if they had not then the other countrys that also gave there veto would have done it anyways so the accession would have been anything but certain.

Alliances are made and keep by having a good relationship between countries The historical name MAKEDONIA is not a exclusivity of the irredentist slavomakedonians of FYROM. Until the Fyrom nationalists and pseudomakedonian propagandists of FYROM understand that the block will remain as it is. SOLUTION = End of Veto NO SOLUTION = FYROM will stay with a Veto forever

If anyting is Pseudo..it's the so called macedonians living in northern greece. Sorry, you are not Macedonian by birth or anything else. You're parents and grandparents arrived by way of population exchange with Turkey when the booted out the Micrasiates. They were refugees that the Athenians didn't want in their neighborhoods, thus the land grab in Macedonia. No, the Macedonians are just what they are, not Bulgarian, and not Serbian. As far as language goes..you greeks can barely understand cretans, some other islanders, pontians or cypriots..I mean come on it's all greek isn't it??? Yiasas kai xarasas

EVEN IN 1890 THE PRO-GREEK AND GREEK INHABITANTS OF OTTOMAN MACEDONIA WERE MORE THAN THE MAKEDONTSI AND THE BULGARIANS, IGNORAMOUS! THE PEOPLES RUPUBLIC OF MAKEDONIYA WAS ESTABLISHED IN 1945 AND THE GREEK REFUGEES SETTLED IN MACEDONIA IN 1924, HAVE ALL RIGHTS TO CALL THEMSELVES MACEDONIAN THAN THE "MAKEDONTSI" OF VARDARSKA WHO BY STILL INSISTING THAT THEY ARE NOT GREEK,CAN NEVER BE TRUE MACEDONIAN... MACEDONIA IS THE NAME-EXIT TO THE AEGEAN IS THE GAME OF "MAKEDONTSI" !!! YOU CAN FOOL 120 COUNTRIES BUT GREEKS AND BULGARIANS KNOW BETTER...

Finaly a comment from FYROM. Yes I am from FYROM if you like it like that but I prefer Republic of Macedonia. Firstly not many countries support the Greek Idea of commanding and blackmailing how another nation to be called. Most of the world is thinking in a decent way. Greece fears Republic of Macedonia ??? Too much pressure will backfire to Greece. Macedonian people are frendly with Greece. Somehow it is evident that Greece is actually the Nationalist catalist in this case. The Constitution of Republic of Macedonia gives full rights to minorities. All of them including the largest- Albanian play important role in building a Democratic Society that can serve as an Good example of co-existance in the Balkans. Greece has to pass that lesson first. We passed it. With a price of a war. But that's gone. Good Days are ahead for the Republic of Macedonia. Greece??? A lot of work to be done with recognition of Minorities and True Democracy. But I hope working together we will come to an agreement. May God Bless Greece and Republic of Macedonia

One 'creative' solution might be for Greece to change its name instead. How about FOPThM (the Former Ottoman Provinces of Thessaly and Morea) for the name of the country and "FOPTheMorean" for the nationality? A bit hard to pronounce, but hard to beat for historical accuracy. Or if that's too extreme (like FYROM), one could go for geographic accuracy -- Greece could be renamed South Balkania, its inhabitants known as South Balkanians... Or, to keep to the heart of the matter, the Greek province of Macedonia, could be renamed the Province of the Lower Vardar, thereby avoiding any troublesome duplication of names with the country north of the border. What a silly, pointless dispute this is! The modern nation state concept is less than 200 years old. To pretend that any modern nation state can lay exclusive claim to what happened 2200+ years ago is breathtaking nonsense. Even more ridiculous is the fact that politicians in Athens and Skopje today waste time and state resources on such non-issues, while neglecting the urgent real needs begging for their attention - the state of the economy, decaying infrastructure, the schools, crime ... and political corruption. But they would much rather avoid any discussion of the latter. It's much safer for the politicians to give speeches about Alexander the Great -- who may have been a great man, but he is 2200 years dead and is long past caring about which modern idiots want to lay claim to him and his legacy as their exclusive property. I'm in favor of everyone in the region being allowed to call themselves whatever they choose - and if the neighbors don't like it now, they'll eventually get used to it. In the final analysis, it's really none of their business. And Balkan émigrés who now live half a world away, in Canada or Australia, should remember where they are (physically, not mentally!) and have the decency not to stir up unnecessary trouble in the homelands they left behind.

Migrants take to the streets again PANTELIS SAITAS/ANA Immigrants holding banners saying ‘Stop racist attacks; no to Islamophobia’ staged a passionate but largely peaceful demonstration in central Athens yesterday. The rally came exactly a week after a similar demonstration degenerated into violence when a small group of protesters vandalized storefronts and traffic lights. Hundreds of immigrants and leftist sympathizers took part in an anti-racism rally in central Athens yesterday, a week after a similar demonstration prompted by the alleged defacement of a miniature Quran by a policeman escalated into clashes with riot police. Clusters of riot police had been stationed around the city center yesterday due to fears that the migrants would clash with some 250 far-rightists who staged their own demonstration a couple of blocks away near the Athens Cathedral in protest at the growing influx of immigrants into the capital. By late last night, there had been no reports of any clashes between the two groups. One minor scuffle reportedly broke out between some migrant protesters who wanted the rally to end and others who wanted it to continue. There were reports of some minor damage to a couple of storefronts but it was unclear whether this was the work of migrant protesters or leftists who joined the rally. Organizations representing the country’s immigrants did not participate in yesterday’s demonstration, saying that they did not want to fuel tensions or have their members branded as troublemakers. “We do not want the presence of immigrants in Aghios Panteleimonas to be linked with outbreaks of violence in the center of the capital which is also our city,” the Muslim Union of Greece said in a statement, referring to a central Athens district with a large immigrant population. In its statement, the union also reiterated its calls for the creation of a mosque for the capital’s Muslims, something authorities promised years ago but have failed to make good on following protests by the Orthodox Church and residents at the proposed locations. Greece/Greeks tolerant? Maybe you can fool others

"From Athens' persepctive, Skopje's use of the name "Macedonia" suggests territorial claims on the Greek province." It is not a suggestion, it is an outright attempt to steal our national symbols and our land. One does not have to go far: just look at some of the comments made by various "knuckleheads" in these forums and then you will understand the "Greek paranoia". Anyone who supports Gruevski on this dispute, by definition, has to have a clearly distorted view of history and all reality as we know it or be totally unaware of the issues at hand. As for those who support this regime and its "Alexandromania" [another Greek word by the way] here is something to ponder on: The Talmud, in relating the friendly meeting between Alexander the Great and the High Priest Simon the Just, on the former's entry into Jerusalem in 333 B.C.E., refers to him as Alexander of Macedon, king of Greece. Also, in Daniel's prophesies about the future world empires, Alexander is referred to as "the king of the Hellenes [Greeks]", "βασιλευς των ελληνων" Δανιηλ 8:21.

stop pretenting to be greek dont tell me were my grand parents came from you brainwashed little boy. your name is not pharos.. pull the other one dude

stop pretending to be greek dude

As an Albanian it's clear what I feel about Slavo-bulgarians in FYROM and what I feel about Greek after 1913, that assimilated our Arvanites,.killing our Chams and the whole-chameria problem! Anyway this is about Fyrom-name..and the destiny has decided to make you guys my sweet enemies,. but in this name-problem, Greece is right,.You are slavo-bulgarians,.your language is the strongest factor that clearly shows you can't be the old mecedonians,.I mean we albanians might be closer to mecedonians than slavo-bulgarians are! It's pretty clear they are mostly Greek, some kind of geek tribe!

Please stop calling me greek..It's MACEDONIAN! dude.

the best name for fyrom central Balkan republic

it seems the smaller the state the bigger the ego's....... my country told mr. gruevski should build a statue his size , but nooooo.... he said i want biggg one..

Macedonia = Northern Greek Province. It has had this name for over 2,500 years, and will continue to do so for many millenium to come!! Vardaska Macedonia, Northern Macedonia, Nova Macedonia or whatever OTHER name you prefer = the state currently referred to as FYROM. Clear definitions, clear histories, no ambiguities!! Greece can afford to wait this issue out, but can FYROM??

I agree with you wholeheartedly that this is a silly dispute and that emigres should stay out of it, but you are completely wrong that anyone can choose any name and the rest have to accept that. I think anyone can choose a SANE name and others have to accept it, but you cannot have a new country choose a name like 'Scotland', 'Sicily' or the like. Especially not the name of a province you have tried to grab. Kossovo cannot name itself Tetovo. Fyrom cannot name itself Europe. We are talking about that level of stupidity. Fyi, the ONLY international precedent is that the Allies denied the name 'German Republic of Austria', even though it was in no way infringing on anything that was theirs.

Hmmm... when Greeks bring up ancient history, they conveniently forget that back in the day, the Greeks absolutely despised the Macedonians and considered them a bunch of highland barbarian rabble-- certainly they didn't consider them Greeks or consider Macedonia to be part of Greece. They also did not consider Alexander of Macedon, or his father Philip, to be Greeks-- even after being forcibly conquered by Philip and reconquered by Alexander... How quickly and conveniently the Greeks of today latch on to the heritage and lands of a DISTINCTLY SEPARATE culture and claim it as part of Greece's heritage now. Of course, likewise the residents of the modern (Former Yugoslav) Republic of Macedonia are Slavs who have no right to lay claim to Alexander or his heritage either-- they didn't show up in the neighborhood until the 7th Century AD. I personally have no objection to the Republic of Macedonia being known by that name-- it is the land formerly known as Macedonia in ancient times (or part of it)-- perhaps if the Greeks are willing to change the name of their province to Southern Macedonia it would then be reasonable to ask FYROM to use the name Republic of Northern Macedonia. Meanwhile, the Albanian who posted on here is quite likely correct-- the Albanians are closer relatives to the ancient Macedonians than are the Greeks or the modern (Slavic) Macedonians. (BTW-- for the record-- I'm American, of British ancestry; overall I don't give too much of a damn about all of your false claims, but I'm a history student and a soldier who has spent time in the Balkans and I'm sick of all the BS from both sides of the Greece/FYROM dispute)

Hmmm... when Greeks bring up ancient history, they conveniently forget that back in the day, the Greeks absolutely despised the Macedonians and considered them a bunch of highland barbarian rabble-- certainly they didn't consider them Greeks or consider Macedonia to be part of Greece. They also did not consider Alexander of Macedon, or his father Philip, to be Greeks-- even after being forcibly conquered by Philip and reconquered by Alexander... How quickly and conveniently the Greeks of today latch on to the heritage and lands of a DISTINCTLY SEPARATE culture and claim it as part of Greece's heritage now. Of course, likewise the residents of the modern (Former Yugoslav) Republic of Macedonia are Slavs who have no right to lay claim to Alexander or his heritage either-- they didn't show up in the neighborhood until the 7th Century AD. I personally have no objection to the Republic of Macedonia being known by that name-- it is the land formerly known as Macedonia in ancient times (or part of it)-- perhaps if the Greeks are willing to change the name of their province to Southern Macedonia it would then be reasonable to ask FYROM to use the name Republic of Northern Macedonia. Meanwhile, the Albanian who posted on here is quite likely correct-- the Albanians are closer relatives to the ancient Macedonians than are the Greeks or the modern (Slavic) Macedonians. (BTW-- for the record-- I'm American, of British ancestry; overall I don't give too much of a damn about all of your false claims, but I'm a history student and a soldier who has spent time in the Balkans and I'm sick of all the BS from both sides of the Greece/FYROM dispute)

Since you are American and you believe you know how ancient greeks felt, don't attitudes of "are we really going to have a hillbilly/redneck leader/president from Missouri, a state which has nowhere near the fame and history of NY" exist in the US? Why is this different from "who is this hillbilly from a place with nowhere near the glorious history of Athens or Sparta, let alone a backward form of government" attitude of say Athenians? Yet, no New Yorker will doubt that your Missouri redneck is no less american. At the time city-states did compete comercially, politically, certainely in the olympic games and sometimes even militarily. So they did not always refer to each other with affection. If you want a historical proof, look for hard evidence, not what anyone says about how people felt 2500 years ago. Try to explain how come jews, who fought Alexander's successors, celebrate even today their victory over the Greeks, NOT the Macedonians, in Channukah. Your comment on the Albanian theory is completely off the wall. Any reason why? And, ancient history would not be too relevant, except that FYROM is trying to revise it. The point is that the majority of Macedonia, both landwise and populationwise, not to mention the stronger historical connection(because there is no record of genocide of the original macedonian population) is greek. In addition, there is a historical record that the 'independent macedonia' was a 1900 plot by bulgarians and later Comintern to grab macedonia(look up struggle for Macedonia in wikipedia and what the then VMRO founders had to say on this). Couple that with attrocities against the greek population both during the struggle for macedonia and WWII (look up Ivan Mihailov Ohrana) as well as what US secretary of State Stettinious had to say when Tito renamed his southern province 'Macedonia' and you get the picture. Are you saying had Stalin renamed a part or all of Siberia 'Soviet Socialist Republic of Alaska' and today that republic wanted to be known as 'Alaska', that the US would recognize it under that name? So that when anyone would refer to 'Alaskan', they would mean ex-USSR, not US Alaska. I'd love to ask that question to Sarah Pailin!