US: Macedonia, Greece To Focus Only On Name

Finally a little light of justice in this greek presedan demands. Thank you US, for being as objective as you can.

Why doesn't Philip Reeker change his name to John Selsdon or Neil Lester, its just a name. It identifies his family and his family history. I'm sure the US would play a different tune if the nationality of their heroes came to question despite overwhelming archaeological evidence. That US base must be just about good to go soon.

As far as BI goes, the issue is not just territorial ambitions: It is denying the identity of the majority of macedonians who are greek, want nothing to do with phony macedonia and certainly did not appoint Gruev to speak for them. So who brings up other issues like "macedonian minority(!)" or properties and who wants to rewrite history is clear and it is not greece. Greece has already made a compromise by agreeing to a name like N.Macedonia -which will distinguish Macedonian wannabes from real ones in Greece.

greece's demands that Macedonia accepts a name that will "clearly distinguish" it from her "province" which she now calls Macedonia as well. OK. First of all however, greece must explain to us all why does it want this? Why is greece in so much hurry and is using all kinds of tactics, pressuring the Republic of Macedonia to change her name? Old maps, actually very very old maps, that currently shall we say, are being "studied" show; the part of this land, the "greek Macedonia", together in one, with the Republic of Macedonia. Now, the question that someone needs to answer is; does the Republic of Macedonia and the "greek Macedonia" all the land belong to greece, or the "greek Macedonia" belongs to the Republic of Macedonia? Why did the US recognize Macedonia with her constitutional name? Is it at all possible, the US has in their possession information, new evidence, about the entire Macedonia issue that greece doesnt know about?

Why should Greece be in a hurry? Greece is already in EU and NATO. Yes old maps..very very old maps shows Macedonia to be the largest part of northern Greece and a very very small (Bitola and monastir area) part of todays FYROM. Maybe you should read the history and geografy books that are distributed outside the borders of FYROM.

Am I hearing the American Ambassador or the Greek government spokesman? The existence of only one issue on the table (a.k.a the name issue) is the milestone of the greek position! Well done Dora!

yes, Giorgi, the US has such "information" about the "entire Macedonia issue", it is stored under the category of ERWARD R. STETTINIUS at the Library of Congress: "The (US State) Department has noted with considerable apprehension increasing propaganda rumors and semi-official statements in favor of an autonomous Macedonia emanating from Bulgaria, but also from Yugoslav partisan and other sources with the implication that Greek territory would be included in the projected State. This Government considers talk of "Macedonian Nation", "Macedonian Fatherland", or "Macedonian National Consciousness" to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic or political reality, and sees in its present revival a possible cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece. U.S. State Dep. Foreign Relations Vol. VII, Circular Airgram [868.014]

"greece must explain to us all why does it want this" For the same reason phony Macedonia would probably have a problem is Kossovo calls itself Tetovo and the same reason that Italy might have a problem is a Libyan province would call itself Sicily after a breakway they would like the world to call them "Sicilians". Clear enough? "Why is greece in so much hurry" Hurry? What hurry? Greece is not applying to enter the EU or NATO. "and is using all kinds of tactics, pressuring the Republic of Macedonia to change her name" Where is the pressure or the tactics? If you want to be an ally, it's obvious that the least that is required is to behave in a sane way. "Old maps, actually very very old maps, that currently shall we say, are being "studied" show; the part of this land, the "greek Macedonia"," Why greek in quotations? Are you questioning the borders? If so, do it openly. " together in one, with the Republic of Macedonia" -which was never called Macedonia in old times-, right, so? Depending on how old your maps are they could also be in one with many other regions. 'does the Republic of Macedonia and the "greek Macedonia" all the land belong to greece, or the "greek Macedonia" belongs to the Republic of Macedonia?' Greece does not question the territorial integrity of any country(and this is why it has not recognized Kossovo or S.Ossetia). I don't know about Phony Macedonia. If they have a claim, they can always try to start a war. "Why did the US recognize Macedonia with her constitutional name?" Ask G.W.Bush and the neo-cons or the lobbies that worked for this. "Is it at all possible, the US has in their possession information, new evidence, about the entire Macedonia issue that greece doesnt know about?" This is extremely silly. Do you really believe that US policy is based on some sort of historical truth(if that is what you are insinuating)?

I hardly think that Americans are going to teach Greeks about history. What is it only 10% of Yanks have passports??? I wonder how many could point to FRYOM and Greece on a map:))) Greeks are the real Macedonians, not the the Slavs in Skopje, they are recent upstarts.Give us a break.

georgio Please do not have these unnesesary wories! Just read a little history and you will understand. For instance: ancient history about greece and its provincies. Or about what the names macedonia, phillipos and aleksandros mean! Then you will understand why greeks consider themselves macedonians, cretans etc.

Aegean Macedonian belongs to the Rebublic of Macedonia. Greeks have stolen the 40% of Macedonian nation and have been trying to Hellenize them and 52% of Macedonian land. Tremble "Greeks" and Grekomani. 2013 is close

The greek blogers seam to not understand their own history(historians).Isocrates and Demosthenes lived in 337 BC when Phillip of Macedonia defited the Hellens at the Chaeronea.Thi War was between Macedonia and Hellas.Dont you Greeks understand the history that was written while this war was going on?Today, you Greeks are falsifying the Ancient and todays history of the 21st century.Dont you people lessen to the Greek inteligentia what are they saying? Do you remember the PM of Greece Rallis boasting how Greeks were coloborating with the Turks againts Macedonia in 1903? How about Vasilis Dendramanis in 1925 who defended Macedonias identity,language and culture againts the Serbs and Bulgarians? Do you realy are trying to spread lies throughout the world? Read what Former ambassador to Macedonia Grossomanidou said to Dora about recognision of the Republic and the Macedonian minority in Greece.She also said"Macedonia existed before Greece did in the 19th and 20th centuries.Read what Skoulariki written,what Gligoris Vallianatos has said.Do I need to take you by your ear to make you realise what realy is going on?You people cannot even think on your own.Why cant we be friends and make the wrong right? How can one State denie ones identity?

Typical rantings and ravings from the Diaspora of Anatolia(Turkey). Why not tell the truth for a change. You guys were kicked out of Turkey, Athenian and Southern greeks didn't want you in "Their" neigborhoods..so why not give them land, farms and buildings that did not belong to them in Macedonia..what is now present day N. Greece. Macedonia was never a part of Hellas until Philip conquered it. Macedonians were not Greeks. Sorry to burst your bubble. Macedonians do not want to be greek, bulgarian, serbian, or anything else..just what we are Macedonians. BTW..after over 500 years of Ottoman domination..I wouldn't be to sure you are pure anything! yiasas

Did your grandparents teach you about history? Or did you learn from the unvalidated forged texts of your nation. I'll answer your US question. A new puppet is needed for the US which is that gigantic building(institution/call it whatever you want) being built or it already has been in order to run CIA operations out of(being speculated) and that is why the USA recognized FYROM. Apparently the size of this embassy is so large in comparison to the ones in other European countries that are significantly larger which has everyone questioning why build something so large in such a small country where you do not need such a large delegation of diplomats. Not for any other reason. They have a vested interest for reasons of their own.

What are the odds in Vegas for 2013 and an expiration of the Bucharest treaty and subsequent "revocation" of Greek sovereignty of historical and geographical Macedonia (the Greek one!)-- as opposed to the partial collapse of fYRoM and the annexation of the Albanian areas by Kosovo and/or Albania??

Wow - I can only hope that the various Greek writers feel better now they have got all that off their chests. It is difficult to take some of this seriously, a lecture from the Greek nation on excessive nationalism is broadly akin in credibility terms to a lecture on Balkan unity from that Greek ally Slobodan Milosevic. It is also simply jaw-dropping that Correction can say, 'If you want to be an ally, it's obvious that the least that is required is to behave in a sane way,' given Greek actions with regard to NATO and Bosnia. What is logical matters not to the helleno-jingoist that so loves to flaunt the chips on its shoulders on this and so many other websites. Only what comes PATHOlogically matters - modern notions of statehood, international law and convention matters not one jot - to the average Greek all that matters is the satisfaction of their overwhelming sense of entitlement. Indeed, the post by Correction provides a further illustration of how the pathology infects that average helleno jingoist. What are we to make of comments like, ‘For the same reason phony Macedonia would probably have a problem is Kossovo calls itself Tetovo and the same reason that Italy might have a problem is a Libyan province would call itself Sicily after a breakway they would like the world to call them "Sicilians". Clear enough?’ Well – no smart alec, not clear because it appears that you can’t distinguish between a city, a province and a state. Presumably you are jumping up and down about to explode with rage about the city of Athens in Georgia in the US? No? Because pathologically you have no issue with the Americans, just the people you happen to have made a priori moral condemnations about. And let no one be in any doubt – the Greek attitude to the RoM is before the fact moral condemnation of the type that holds Hellenes to be always and everywhere beyond reproach and all others to be irredeemably malign. There are words for this in the modern world, racism being but one. But this does not matter to Correction for his pathology does not allow him to see that his sentiments have no place in the modern world. Only the word of Alexander the so-called Great and any number of figures long dead matter. Indeed, Correction also exposes the rampant paranoia in Greece that sits alongside the pathological jingoism in Greek society. ‘Are you questioning the borders? If so, do it openly.’ The RoM constitution, of course specifically excludes such a challenge. Where is the equivalent part of the Greek constitution by the way? It’s just that that meetings between Samaras and Milosevic rather suggest that Greek aspirations on RoM territory are rather more than theoretical. Being unable to distinguish between a subjective and objective threat the standard Greek recourse is gibberish about ‘irridentism.’ That word is actually a code for the inflated sense of victimhood that pervades Greece, largely because of the insecurities that result from the population haveing a 12th century mindset in a 21st century world. Irridentism in RoM/Greece. I’ve been bombed three times by the IRA Correction – how have you suffered? Or is your vision of irredentism limited to a few internet fruit loops? It is almost as if the period after 1945 never happened and Greece somehow feels that it has an exemption from the world as it is. Greece, of course, notwithstanding its NATO and EU memberships is far, far from being a full or legitimate member of the modern European concert. For reasons largely to do with history, many of the values and trends that emerged in Western Europe following the demise of the Soviet Union – the ending of the left-right political divide; the rise of what could loosely be termed ‘Third Way/big tent’ ideas; what some described as ‘the end of history’ – have not become common currency in Greece, where politics remains conflictual and a there is an extraordinarily combative left-wing. The ethnic nationalism endemic in the Greek conception of its nationhood varies substantially from the modernist civic conceptions to be found in the mainstream of Europe. It is for reasons such as this that the Greeks had no problem backing Serbia and the glorious orthodox brotherhood and spit in the faces of its NATO treaty commitments. I have absolutely no idea how Greece ever got EU membership, still less maintained it. Whilst Georgio says much that I can not agree with [old maps? What ARE you on about? Maps of the British Empire are old and they have no relevance.], he is absolutely correct when he says, ‘First of all however, Greece must explain to us all why does it want this?’ It is a straightforward question that that dreadful woman Bakoyannis (a minister at the time that Greece’s FM Samaras was plotting with Milosevic) will not engage with. European precedent is clear – for example Ireland. Where an area is shared between two countries, the precedent is clear. A province has an overt identifier (Northern Ireland) whilst the independent country is identified with the term ‘Republic’ like the Republic of Ireland. And this ’Phoney Macedonia’ needs to stop. How about the Former Ottoman Province of Macedonia – no? Is nasty aggression only OK in one direction Correction? It would appear that Ms Bakoyannis holds the view that Greece is a special case and as such she should say why. Why is it that Greece and the RoM should not follow that precedent. And no Correction, ‘Alexander the so called Great said so,’ is not a good reason. I long ago came to the conclusion that Dora Bakoyannis lost her marbles – in fact, I think a visit to the British Museum to see them is in order. The stark reality that Greeks can, pathologically, not face up to is that the world has moved on and their historical entitlements have diminished. Their case is weak - history or otherwise. Not only is international precedent against them, the pathology of helleno jingoism has long ago exposed the Greek mode of operation as morally reprehensible. But none of this matters to the average Greek. As a nation it is pathologically incapable of abandoning its sense of smug superiority, moderating its hate or even recognising its racism. Even as modernity and NATO/EU allies openly referring to the ‘Republic of Macedonia’ close in. Sad, because I thought Greece was a beautiful country on my visits there.

It is a shame for you Greeks to lie so much.How can you stand it.Dont you think,your Greek government is using the Macedonian question just to improve their own cance of being re-elected?This notion of Macedonia being Greek is a myth that the politicians are using to meet their own needs, not the publics at large.You guys are blind to see the truth.My grandparents of 1770 are Macedonian,my name is based on my great-great grandfather from 1770.How can Greece denie me my identity?His name is pure Macedonian.I am proud Macedonian,I do not live with lies.It is absurd for Greece to claim Alexanders Empire was Greek.Have you watched the game show in Britain when the question of "What was Alexanders the Great nationality?"So far, are you with me?

Are you Risto Stefov, the character that writes on the American Chronicle page.

Macedonia is Greek not Slavic. Slavs arrived thousands of years after Philip and Alexander had their kingdoms there. FYROM should proudly name themselves what they are...or maybe they do not really know??? How about South Slav Orthodox Republic? SSOR. Sounds great!

Dara and Georgio are perfect examples of the kind on newborn extremist nationalism coming out of former communist countries like Yugoslav Makedonija. Your country is only 18 years old. You deliberately chose a name that would imply irredentist claims against Greek Macedonia. I believe the Greek government have been far too soft on FYROM. The border should be closed or at least trade and relations cut to a minimum. After all this whole saga begun after Greece invested millions in FYROM and increased their living standards.

Sorry to burst your hairy bubble but, any chance of a megali albania is gone. Without US support they wouldn't be able to wipe themselves. So don't count on that being a factor, Macedonia the nation will be around well beyond 2013. It was this thinking that got the 1990's greek government into the mess you find themselves today. They believed the albanians would do their dirty work and obliterate Macedonia and they would not have to deal with it themselves. We are still here and we are not going away, infact we are growing and becoming stronger. Have you noticed even your great white hope "Obama" has abandoned you. They the US know the deal here and they know Gruevski is no puss and has every right not to be dictated to by greece. If you and others like you want some advice, i suggest you go to igenea and trace you genetic origins. Its quite enlightening, i did and guess what. I'm proud to say that i have as much right if not more than most to call myself Macedonian and to declare long live Macedonia! Long live Macedonia!

There are Greek troops, to be sure, in Persian service – but how different is their cause from ours ! They will be fighting for pay— and not much of it at that; WE on the contrary shall fight for GREECE, and our hearts will be in it. As for our FOREIGN troops —Thracians, Paeonians, Illyrians, Agrianes — they are the best and stoutest soldiers of Europe, and they will find as their opponents the slackest and softest of the tribes of Asia. Arrian (The Campaigns of Alexander) Alexander talking to the troops before the battle. Book 2-7 Penguin Classics. Page 112. Translation by Aubrey De Seliucourt.

before 1821 Greece was nown as Romii and was still states.... the name Greece was a name given by the English French and Russians you first king was a bolivian!