Macedonia Name Row Destabilises Balkans -ICG

If Greece recognizes Macedonians, then they'll have to admit that Greece is a multiethnic state with various minorities that were forcibly assimilated & exiled. Oh and not mentioned a multi-ethnic Greece doesn't "jive" well with the official Greek historical narrative of being "direct" descendants of the ancient Hellenes.

If Athens EVER acknowledge the national identity of its northern neighbour as “Macedonian” ...then you gonna see such a distabilization in deep south Balkans that you can not even imagine! 2,5 million REAL Macedonians in North Greece will NEVER accept to have the same identity with non-Greeks who decided the last century to be renamed as "Macedonians"! Athens will pay very hard... even to thing something like that! ICG think-tanks should have thought of it in the begging, during the creation of that artificial state in the heart of Balkans. No more fake ethnicities in Balkans. That cannot continue! Every 40-50 years, a super-power creates a new ethnicity in Balkans and then ICG and other "organizations" try to "solve" the.. new problem! Macedonia for Macedonians... the real ones! ..and Vardarska for Bulgaria.

FYROM has no right to the historical heritage of Alexander and the ancient Macedonians. Alexander was a Greek and not a Slav. The name "Macedonian" must not be monopolized by FYROM. If there is to be a Republic of Northern Macedonia then its citizens must be called Northern Macedonians in distinction from the "Southern Macedonians" who are and speak Greek. Under no conditions should Greece accept a solution which disregards our cultural heritage and is bent on falsifying history. FYROM will have to invent some other "myth" about their identity. They must not be allowed to do it at the expense of Greece.

What a load of rubish by ICG claimimg that Greece has violated the interim agreement! Skopje has been violating it repeatedly from day 1, by using the name Macedonia and lobbying for it all over the world without using the provisional term FYROM until a mutually acceptable solution is found. Skopje has been provoking Greece from the beginning (with Uncle Sam's backing) while claiming that the interim agreement is not valid six months after signing it given that no solution is found and on these grounds is using the name Macedonia. But when a problem arises then Skopje remembers the interim agreement and uses it against the opposite party. Just pathetic! The only reasosable point made by ICG was their advice towards Skopje to accept the latest Matthew Nimetz proposal and bring a closure to the matter. The sooner they do that the better it will be for everyone. As long as for the so called 'Macedonian' identity that seems to be important only to the megalomaniac propaganda filled Slavic stock of this country that is mostly Bulgarian anyway. The 30% Albanian population couldn't give a toss.

"REPUBLIC OF NORTH MACEDONIA FOR FULL INTERNATIONAL USE" IS FINE. BUT THE NATIONAL IDENTITY CANNOT BE SIMPLY "MACEDONIAN" AS THIS TERM REFERS TO THE ANCIENT MACEDONIANS AND CURRENT GREEK MACEDONIAN INHABITANTS OF WESTERN, CENTRAL AND EASTERN MACEDONIAN REGIONS OF GREECE! THEREFORE THE PASSPORTS OF NORTHERN MACEDONIA SHOULD ALSO STATE NORTHERN MACEDONIAN CITIZENSHIP (SINCE SLAVS,ALBANIANS,ETC WILL BE INCLUDED) AND I THINK THE NEW REPUBLIC SHOULD USE FOR ANY OTHER USE THE TERMS "MAKEDONSKI-MAKEDONSKA" WITHOUT TRANSLATION FOR CULTURAL OR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES. SIMPLE AND CLEAR ISN'T IT?

MACEDONIA SHOULD NEVER GIVE UP ITS NAME , HERITAGE OR GIVE UP ANY TERRITORIAL CLAIM IT MAY HAVE UNDER ANY TREATIES

It is very unclear where these "destabilization" notions come from. There is nothing to stop any NATO country from having a civil war if they want to. And you cannot seriously propose that the more numerous, living in the larger part of Macedonia and historically connected to ancient Macedonia greek Macedonians will support awarding their identity to someone else!

whoes alexander is he ? what legacy did he leave behind. the slavs of Fyrom are bukgarians as were their predesessors delchev& co. there language was clearly bulgarian, as was their church and names, the fyroms have not historical like to aledander and his legacy. your name is Vardar banovina. have some pride & strart your own historty. Please do not insult the people of fyrom. they are bulgarians and bugarians, the joke just has to end, for you information mecedonia is a greek worg as is alexander and phillip,,,,,,,

Werner - I for one hope that someone else is making proposals given that the UN has been a decade long failure in this regard.

I have found the ICG's reports rather hit and miss in the past, but this report is really worth a read because it is very good. It is freely available at http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=5862&l=1. It makes an awful lot of sense and strips out the passions that far too often overtake this subject. What is most interesting about the report is that it effectively shows just how little the difference between the two 'sides' really are. Once the internet ranting is stripped out. No one emerges with any credit, in any truly modern part of the world this dispute would have been a foot note in the text books by now. Well, well worth a read.

If the so-called more numerous greek macedonians are so Greek, why did the Greek state pursue a policy of forced assimilation and population exchanges with Turkey? How connected can a Greek from Anatolia be to ancient Macedon? So you can't seriously propose that christians who speak Greek from Anatolia are the rightful heirs of Macedonian identity, an identity I might add which was considered suspect in Greece prior to 1988.

So, ICG the US founded organization, and the main destabilizers of BAlkans, give their advive... on how Balkans should not get destabilized. What an irony! In the begging the create 3 new ethnicities: 1)Bosnian (Serbs Muslims and Croatian Muslims) 2)Macedonians (Bulgarians, Albanians and Serbs) 3)Kossovars (Albanians) After they create these 3 new "ethnicities" they plant their ethnic states among the other in Balkans. As it was expected... problems start.... and now they come up with new brilliant ideas!! No thanks. If we follow their new brilliant ideas... most propably we'll have a war between Thessaloniki and Athens. The 2,5 million real Macedonians of Northern Greece will never accept athens as their capital and main representative it is to take out such "smart" decisions like the acknowledge of the national identity of FYROMians as “Macedonians”. The smart think tank should take under consideration this factor too. A further destabilization of deep southern Balkans from the REAL Macedonians.

"How connected can a Greek from Anatolia be to ancient Macedon?" ------------------------ They're not connected at all Mark. They have their own "Pontian" or "Smyrnean" cultural clubs etc. Thats why the Greek anatolians are called Pontioi or Smyrnioi. Since we speak for Macedonians... we speak about people like me Mark. We were here since ever, we came from nowhere and we fought in 1904-8 in Macedonian Struggle. We didnt come in 1922 from Anatolia. We were here far before any Greek anatolian comes in Macedonia. So... WE are your problem Mark. Live the Greek anatolians behind. WE were the ones who won in Macedonian Struggle back in 1904... WE are the ones who will never accept Bulgarians as "Macedonians" and WE will be the eternal problem of the FYROM propaganda machine. We Mark.. the REAL Macedonians that you call us... "Grekomans"... I'm sure you remember us from 1904. WE won you back then Mark.. not the Anatolians. What Tito told you? That you lost from ghosts?

"If the so-called more numerous greek macedonians are so Greek, why did the Greek state pursue a policy of forced assimilation and population exchanges with Turkey?" What is "forced assimilation"? Something like the Papadopoulos becoming "Pappas" in the US? Do you think you speak for those "forcibly assimulated"? Same for the turks that are turks only because of the practice of jennissaries, which were assimilated as forcibly as can be. Do you wish to speak for them too? Population exchanges were done not only with Turkey, but also with Bulgaria. Most of the people who came from Asia Minor were being cleansed by the turks, but large numbers of greeks also came from what is today Bulgaria. For your information there were no "Macedonians" when Macedonia was liberated from the turks, at least not in what is today greek Macedonia, as evideced by the war between greeks and bulgarian comitadji. There were greeks, bulgarians, serbs and others. "How connected can a Greek from Anatolia be to ancient Macedon?" Surely a lot more than a slav-macedonian who were not even anywhere near the region in ancient times. And get real, modern Greece has been a country for 180 years. In the meantime and especially in recent years there has been a lot of mobility, so people who settle in Macedonia are Macedonians. Look around for example who is a Californian? "So you can't seriously propose that christians who speak Greek from Anatolia are the rightful heirs of Macedonian identity" Surely a lot more than bulgarians or the population of fyrom. Same with the US of the " an identity I might add which was considered suspect in Greece prior to 1988". What nonsense is that?

@Mark christians who speak greek? greeks you mean. There no bloofy greeks? In that sense there are no French anywhere either. There are french-speaking christans, english-speaking christians etc. What is this crap???? What is this rubbish? Why all this anti-greek racism in western europe? So much jealousy? So much ungratefulness? And you little slavs, go got a religion and a culture from the greeks, why so much hatred? Read some bloody history, look yoursleves in the mirror, dont live in lies! if it is so important to you to be greeks, come, unite with greece! we welcome you.